Comer 50 Engine Specifications

[Eric Sepulveda]

I have been reviewing the WKA Kid Kart rules, which is IMO, opened to much intrepretation. Sec. 903. All engines are to remain stock, as supplied by the manufacturer. No grinding or aftermarket accessories (incl. fasterners) The only changes permitted are those that will promote equality among competitors rather than increasing performance. Who determines what changes are performance enhancing or changes made to promote equality? Anyone with previous and current Comer 50 knowledge knows these motors all do not run equal from the factory, some run better than others and some dont run as well. I have owned/own 6 Comers in the last year so i can attest to this statement. What concerns me is this. I have a few engines that have been "rebuilt or Blueprinted" or whatever term you wan to use, to fall within the given parameters, these motors are all WKA legal as far as specs, where it gets to changes that are not specified by a specific section of the rules, it falls back on the " only permitted changes are those that promote equality........." I have an issue with this. Most engines in the Kid kart class have some work done to an extent (some call it Blueprinted), there may be one or two that have not, but I dont think so. And it would be naive to say or to believe that everyone is running with a 100% stock untouched, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as its within the parameters allowed by WKA. I just have a problem with someone telling me that a "procedure done to a motor was done to increase performance when in fact the issue in question would fall in the " only changes permitted are those that promote equality..............." How is this going to be teched? Ive spoken to many Comer 50 engine builders and some who also have tech duties at other tracks in the Midwest following WKA rules, and Ive been informed that all the rules are intrepreted slightly different from speaking to these individuals. The rules are stated on the WKA Sect. 900 lets follow the rules and only the rules. If its grey area, that what it is. Now with all this being said, lets not ignore the fact that the practice these kids put in, some more than others. The Kid Karters right now are the fastest Kid Karter to run at Katy, and also one of the most teched which speaks greatly for GCKI because it keeps the participants within the rules allowed by WKA and the racing close. Im not just talking about locally, Im talking about nationally, I think we at Katy run one of the best Kid Kart programs in the country and we do it WKA legal. I know when we race at Katy, my stuff better be within the rules because Rick will check it. I know this is Kid kart and its a "exhibition class to allow the kids to learn and get their feet wet in Karting, but thats all good the 1st year, after that the kids know what going on. The second you put another Kid Kart on the track its a RACE, you see that as they leave the pits. Racing is a competition. PERIOD This year we are out there to win every race, every heat, and qualify #1, last year we practiced 88 day of the year, multiply that times about 25-40 (at least, maybe more in some cases) laps per practice and its pretty impressive feat, 2200-3400 laps if you do the math. My son is enjoys this so much, he has learned so much this 1st year, not to mention the other kids, they have all improved from last year. This past weekend 3 kids ran faster than the Kid kart track record set in Oct. 08, and the others were well within reach of it, and it should only be so, because this group of kids have been racing together since last Spring. We want to race and be within the rules. Period, after that leave it up to the kids.

[Jeff Arndt]

Does the track keep any kind of records regarding the reasons for Disqualifcation that could be made available? Most likely removing the kart number\driver names.

It would be good to know what has been ruled illegal in the past so parents can understand how GKCi interprets the vague language in the rule books that Eric has pointed out.

[Eric Sepulveda]

Sounds like tech was pretty thorough this past weekend in the Kid Kart class as it was at SWRC, if we are going to be getting very detailed on tech on the Comer engine then we need to limit the class to one engine type only, all new styles, because if we are getting that technical, then we need to be running the same motors across the board. Period. As it turns out the only kids running old styles are out of the class as of last week. (Warwas and Lewis) And Im pretty sure most will agree on running new style C50 only, from what Ive seen thats what is running out there, because tech is getting intense, and its only fair this way. The old style motors run hotter because the shroud is different, and also the case is different, the flywheels is different, crank is different, did I mention the shroud, etc..... you cannot tech two different motor designs for the same class and expect it to be fair or equal when one clearly has a advantage. I can assure you i dont turn my motor on at the grid just to have it running, Im trying to get the SOB to get some temp in the motor, I know Lewis got a DQ for leaving a rag on his engine at SWRC trying to build heat in the engine, how is having a shroud that limits less air compared to the shroud of the new style which is obviously much different as far as more area to breath in, how is this equal, aftermarke heat shields are not allowed, whats the difference.......if we want to be on a level playing field this should not be an issue. Im sure I can get most KK parents to agree on this one, since the only old style motor karts are moving up. We are going to be racing in the Midwest area this summer in a class with slightly different KK rules, so Im not just bringing this up for my benefit, but for all the other Kid Karts, this has to be addressed at our track specially now that tech is very detailed, and motors are getting complete tear downs. And this by no means should take anything away from the #48 Kid Kart and his accomplishments this past year or at SWRC, as you know the Kid Kart track record was set by a new style motor on Sunday @ SWRC, #9 Ardnt, and the #48 won the event, the kid can just flat out drive. So the old style is not the fastest motor out there, by any means, Im just stating its different and if we want to be within what tech at GCKI, i think all the motors HAVE TO BE THE SAME to be equal. We are having National Level tech going here......

[david mckee]

There is no way that the KK motors are equal and I’m not talking just old vs. new style the difference between motors as seen on the track in some cases is huge and still be legal now how can that be if the rules state The only changes permitted are those that will promote equality among competitors, as the drivers become better the motor is the separator not driving skill.

[Rick Miller]

Thanks for the posts guys, Since GCKI has adopted the WKA rules for the Kid kart class, we have to adhere to the rules in the 2010 Tech Manual. Is it the most detailed set of rules ever written? no. We have to do the best job in tech for what we have to work with. Spirit and intent is open to debate. The old saying " If it doesnt say you can, you cant" seems to be a good base line to follow. I have seen alot teching these motors for the last couple of years, CCs, timing, machine work, polishing, grinding, beveling and a host of other issues. I know being an ex racer myself we all want to find any "edge" we can to improve performance, thats the nature of racing. But we must also keep it fair and equal. There are different interpretations in the WKA rules, "only changes permitted are those that will promote equality among competitors rather than increasing performance" is oxymoronic in its self. Why would one make a change that is not a performance enhancement? This statement is preceeded by " all engines are to remain stock, as supplied by the manufacturer" Example: if I see a bolt hole that was helicoiled to save a block instead of replaceing it, that to me is not a preformance issue, its a way to repair the block as opposed to buying a new one. What I look for are any performance enhancements or alterations, CCs, port timing, seals, carbs, cylinder modifications, ignition coils, ignition timing and a host of other things. I know people send parts out to get " blueprinted", that means someone somewhere is going to modify and enhance the performance of these motors. I know the methods, squareing the cylinders, decking the block, crank polishing, carburator polishing etc.. non of which are legal changes in the " spirit and intent" of this class.
I have tried my best to raise the bar in tech at GCKI to promote equality. I want everyone to have the same opportunity to win, not let those who spent big money to gain an unfair advantage. There is no doubt some of these motors run differenty that others, same thing in Rotax, Yamaha, HPV, K80 and all the rest. But there has to be limits and boudaries as to what is legal and what is not.
On the other side of the fence, I see so much emphasis put on these engine packages that some teams do not look close enough to chassis set ups and driving technique and racing strategies, there is much to gain in these areas and all need to focus on those issues in addition to motor performance. Hope this post helps. Rick Miller

[david mckee]

I'm in no way complaining about tech we need that, my point is the difference in these motors for one legal motor to the next in some cases is huge if you swap motors on karts I think you will see the motor is the seperator not the kart set up, and I agree that they are some better drivers and some Karts are set up better, but the motor alone shouldn't be worth 2 to 4 seconds a lap!

[Eric Sepulveda]

Well I would like to just see the new style motors only for the purpose of the the motors at least being the same, performance being another subject, but David you hit the nail on the had, as you know you can buy 5 motors and they will all run different, and this is with all of them being the same. I can say this, I was speaking to another KK'er and we did agree that some of the lastest improvements have not been motor related, and more so chassis setup, especially during the winter month, and now that its going to be "HOT" we are at it again, cause what was working for us in the winter is not working now.

[Eric Sepulveda]

And you do a Great Job Rick! I tell you what, little Eric knows that the race finish is not decided until tech is over, we have gone both ways, down and up.

[Brian Warwas]

The spread is wide on KK's cause the motor is so small with zero torque. Leaving no room for mistakes in the corners.
My motor this year will not come close to the power it made last year. Our highest achieved rpms will not make even close to 11,000 on track. Last year we were up near or above 12k every race. The biggest key to our lap times recently is his ability in keeping his speed through the corners. He and I learned together how to make the kart turn better.
Our low rpm values are in the high 7k range now. This is with stock springs and clutch shoes.(They don't break )

Read the mychron and focus on getting your low rpm values up. You'll see what I mean.
Brandin on his own found he can lean forward and back to free up the kart to his liking in different corners.
He leans back to keep it WO in the the faster turns and leans way forward in S's to get front bite and free up the rear. Now it's getting hot and there is just so much grip for kk's at GCKI. Need to free them up as much as possible.
If you don't you could be 4+ seconds off the leader even if you have to fastest motor out there.

Old styles and heat - We have only raced one motor in our time kid karting and it is an old style. Recently our fastest lap times have been in lap 3 and we slow down after that. I'm quite certain it has been the tires. Kart just gets too tight.
And I'm telling you all it's drastic. Like 1.5 seconds between lap 3 and say lap 7. When it was cold out we did not have this issue. Eveyone should have Yellow tires for winter and Red one's for summer.


Just one more thing.... Rick Miller is The Man!!!
He's not tough, He's just following the rules. "As-cast" is just how it reads.
Everyone just needs to understand he's looking for everything and not trust any part you didn't receive new in a red and white comer box.
GCKI would not be what it is today without him giving a dam about us. Thanks a million Rick !!!!

[Patrick Madison]

That's why they refer to him as TOPGUN!!!

[david mckee]

no issues with Rick, no issues with DQ over key not right material (well some, but ultimately my fault I should know what is a legal part and what is not but there was certainly no intent for a performance advantage timing was way under what was allowed and was very tight) no issue with better driver and set up, we are just not there yet. BIG issue with 10+ RPMs vs. 12+ RPMs is both stock legal motors that’s all, AND I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER.

[Eric Sepulveda]

On another note, it would be nice to have a big Kid Kart race here in Katy, promote the crap out it, get some cool prizes or trophy's for the kids. We already have a big turn out for KK's as a club, and we have a damn good tech program for sure. I bet we could get 20+ KK's, that would be awesome.

[Eric Sepulveda]

There are a few kids that have got this track down and I can say they each have a unique driving style/ line, I dont think there is a particular way to get around Katy, Keeping it on the gas is probably the common factor for these kids, Eric drives a line that in my eyes has lots of improving that can be done, but looking at his times, you wouldn't think it, I try to tell him to drive it a certain way and I screw him up, maybe its me that does not know what hell im talking about........ One thing is for certain that 54.9XX that was on the wall for all of last year is childs play for the kids we got out there now, or what do you call it???????? these are Children. So it cant be called childs play, what about "playing with blocks", ya thats what we will call it. These kids are having fun for sure, and we got some new faces and some faces that are headed to the next class, but this is for sure, if you come kid kart at Katy, you better come ready to race, cause these kids dont mess around, neither does Tech!!!


PS: The shark is hungry!!!!!!

[Rick Miller]

Thanks guys, Ya ll are great.